All Over Software Jobs: Re: [agile-testing] Re: Are testers equally valued on agile teams?

Thursday, January 05, 2012

Hey Lisa,

I definitely have worked on a number of teams and had good and bad experiences. It really depends on the group as some teams can't value the non programming tester. While other embrace diversity and let it help drive their success. I actually don't care what you call me but give me the respect to help ship a quality product. I prefer the term that everyone is an architect and we are all architecting code together. It really comes down to if you have good people respecting each other or a nasty situation where you are pulling others down. I have seen both on agile teams where is harder to make a difference on non agile teams.

I have worked on an incredible team where the value was lauded as the best work ever. We were able to fire on all cylinders and invest in the right places. The communication between teams was amazing. I enjoyed that and try to imagine that as I help teams get to where they need to be.

The worst experience I have ever had was on an agile team too. The testing team was so beaten down that it was basically providing zero value overall. Everything mattered to ship the product and nothing else mattered. The abuse was something that I still can't even imagine which explain their effectiveness. Fortunately some teams were able to get past it but the software as a results had major problems.

The funny thing is my waterfall experiences were mostly good and we shipped code. At least the planning was mostly given so we could do our jobs. The bad ones were always agile taken to a bad place and used the schedule to beat up the testing team.

The tester/qa/programmers who don't get the respect are mainly the people making my job much harder. They don't stand up to report quality and make the investment in the right place. Honestly I am happy with any tools you use: junit, loadrunner, selenium, browser or a keyboard. Just think smart and provide value to the team. People notice who is being successful and those are the people I see getting respect. Stand up and report the quality even when you are beaten up for saying it. A few lumps will lead to a better experience at work then hiding and avoiding the job causing more problems for the software.

Gotta love the testing. Paid to break things. Dream come true.

jeremy

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 7:30 AM, Lisa Crispin <lisa.crispin@gmail.com> wrote:

Rohan, are these teams that call themselves "agile"? If so, I question why those teams have testers writing Winrunner scripts, instead of the whole team working on test automation?
-- Lisa

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:48 PM, Rohan Sarker <rohansarker1@gmail.com> wrote:

In India, Testers may develop Attitude Problems with Developers if Developers show Writing Code as More Effort and More Value-Addition than Tester's role in Testing. In many cases, Testers who can write Beginner WinRunner or LoadRunner Scripts are tabbed as "National Runners". Also many Testers are sometimes tabbed by Developers or QA Lead as "National Villain", "National Hacker", "National Terrorist", "National Salesperson", "National Robot", etc.

In big MNC in India, Developers are benefited as the organization has huge Development Code Library. Tester's may have limited Technology based Access to the Development Library.

Also in case of any communication problem with Testers, Developers always have the option to click the Corruption Button.

Regards

Rohan Sarker
+917278539338

+913324288069
http://about.me/rohansarker

labels.io/rohansarker

Are testers equally valued on agile teams? Message List

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Re: [agile-testing] Re: Are testers equally valued on agile teams?

Thanks, Gustavo.

In your experience, when the team has a tester role, and the team takes responsibility for quality, does the tester feel like an equally valued member of the team?
thanks
Lisa

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Gustavo Cebrian Garcia <g.cebrian.garcia@...> wrote:

Hello,

This is my experience:

If roles are not defined (testers and developers) junior agile teams are not responsible for the QA Side.

Defining a QA responsability is something we do not agree on in the Agile community.

In my opinion, even though the team may be very experienced, It is always good to define a tester as a role.

What Agile in mi opinion states, is that defining the ratio between tester/developers is difficult. Just because you define responsabilities does not mean
that the team still is going to be a team. So, the tester/s and the developers and project owner have to talk and
allocate testing time to anyone in the team as necessary.

Gustavo.

On 3 January 2012 15:47, Joe <joeoakes0913@...> wrote:

I'm a "lifer" with 24 yrs of testing under my belt. For almost 2
decades, my experience was in traditional waterfall projects where QA
built elaborate test plans and had the code slung over the wall to them
by the development teams. In most of those experiences QA was thought of
as a necessary evil. We weren't equal in the eyes of the developers but
our value was appreciated more by the DEV Leads and project business
entities.

My first taste of Agile came in an internal project for an energy
provider. Continuous collaboration with the developers and business
analysts was an eye-opening experience for me. For the first time in my
career I felt like I wasn't cast aside in a caste system seemingly built
on self-importance. I was an integral part of a team and I felt like an
equal with all project team members.

I'm currently in a massive 3-4 year public-sector Agile project where
the team is building a customized Case Management system for a very
large City Municipal Court that ingests 1.2 million new Cases per year.
Besides developers and business analysts, this project also includes
roles of Process Owners, Product Owners and a Steering Committee
comprised of judges, attorneys, police captains, etc. What's really cool
about this project, which is also my initial venture in the public
sector, is that QA seems MORE valued than the development roles. We're
actually looked at as rock-stars by the public sector, especially by the
Product Owners and Steering Committee. Our voice is heard in every
meeting. Our opinions are gathered at every turn. We are constantly
sought out rather than being the seekers.

In my experiences, QA is definitely valued more in Agile than in
traditional projects.

Best wishes to all,
Joe

--- In agile-testing@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Crispin <lisa.crispin@...>
wrote:

>
> I've pretty much always felt that, as a tester, I was valued as highly
as
> programmers or others on the team, even in non-agile shops. Not that I
> haven't had to earn my credibility, but generally I've felt like an
equally
> valued team member. But perhaps this is because I started out my
career as
> a programmer? I've heard lots of stories of testers who were treated
like
> failed programmers or the like.
>
> Since agile values promote the whole team approach, cross-functional
teams
> where all roles have equal value, I'd like to think that there's no
caste
> system on agile teams.
>
> If you're a tester on an agile team, I'd like to know your experience.
Do
> you feel that all team members are equally valued?
> thanks
> Lisa
>
> --
> Lisa Crispin
> Co-author with Janet Gregory, _Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for
Testers
> and Agile Teams_ (Addison-Wesley 2009)
> Contributor to _Beautiful Testing_ (O'Reilly 2009)
> http://lisacrispin.com
> @lisacrispin on Twitter
> http://entaggle.com/lisacrispin
>

--
Lisa Crispin
Co-author with Janet Gregory, _Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for Testers and Agile Teams_ (Addison-Wesley 2009)
Contributor to _Beautiful Testing_ (O'Reilly 2009)
http://lisacrispin.com
@lisacrispin on Twitter
http://entaggle.com/lisacrispin

--
Lisa Crispin
Co-author with Janet Gregory, _Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for Testers and Agile Teams_ (Addison-Wesley 2009)
Contributor to _Beautiful Testing_ (O'Reilly 2009)
http://lisacrispin.com
@lisacrispin on Twitter
http://entaggle.com/lisacrispin