All Over Software Jobs: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives

Friday, January 13, 2012

I've never used COBOL, but I haven't heard anyone say they really liked working in with it. That's not true for Flex so even if it gets marginalized because it always remains locked to ActionScript and FlashPlayer, it may not be the subject of cursing.

I'm not in disagreement that in the long term, the advantages of Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer will be diminished by advances in the HTML/CSS/JS stack. That's why Adobe has made a major strategic shift to become the tooling leader in the HTML stack. But that doesn't mean that you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now.

Many folks who work with HTML/CSS/JS, even using the many libraries and development methodologies available for it, still feel like the Flex paradigm is superior. Apparently, even Google agrees because they are trying to create their own version of that paradigm with DART. While translated code is never as good, the productivity advantages of a better paradigm have been pretty much proven to be worth it, otherwise, Flex wouldn't have been that successful either since MXML isn't as efficient as pure ActionScript, and Google wouldn't have invested so much in writing their website logic in Java and/or Google Closure and/or DART.

There is general support in the Apache Flex project for exploring ways of using the Flex paradigm to create HTML5 apps. Those working on the project are motivated to future-proof their investment in Flex. I don't see any technical issue blocking us from translating the paradigm to HTML5, and I invite all those who like the Flex paradigm to participate. But at the same time, there is lots of work to be done, lots of solutions to be built, and lots of money to be made on the Flex/AS/FP stack while we wait for the HTML5 stack to deliver on its promises.

On 1/12/12 3:37 PM, "Ron G" <rgrimes@sinclairoil.com> wrote:

I think you make my point for me by comparing the future of Flex to COBOL. Yes, it's still around, but we all wish it wasn't and curse it everytime we have to deal with it. As you say, "it is hard to get out." So, yes, I still have projects written in Flex that will undoubtedly continue to run for years to come. But, it's hardly a justification for continuing to develop in COBOL...er, uh, I mean Flex.

As you say, "the need for Flash in the browser will likely diminish". Again, you help make my point against using Flex or FlashBuilder. I find it amusing that some have suggested that Flex and FlashBuilder could be retooled to render HTML5 pages. It confounds me as to why I would want to write MXML and AS3 so it can be translated to HTML and JS. If that is the desired end product, then I suggest developers just develop in HTML and JS to begin with. Translated code is never as efficient as code specifically written in that sytax.

Ron

--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> , Alex Harui <aharui@...> wrote:
>
> So, how long will Flex be around? Probably forever, since once you get in the enterprise infrastructure, it is hard to get out. There are still COBOL programs running in the world. How long will Flex be a choice as a development technology? It could be forever as well, it will depend on how you define what Flex is. If you say that it is ActionScript and the Flash Platform, then when HTML5 delivers on its promise of power and productivity, the need for Flash in the browser will likely diminish, but AIR will still remain an attractive way to develop cross-platform desktop apps. But under the definition that Flex is a development paradigm (declarative markup for UI, some script mixed in that supports OOP), Flex may transform to become a popular paradigm for creating HTML5 apps.
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> On 1/12/12 9:38 AM, "Ron G" <rgrimes@...> wrote:
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> Hi James,
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> I certainly respect the decision of those who are sticking with Flex, but I would suggest that developers do so with the recognition that they may be developing with a technology that isn't going to be around that long.
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> I could write at length about this, but, in a nutshell, here's why. On the one hand, you have an open-source project that is geared toward enterprise application development, but it is completely dependent on a proprietary runtime. That runtime is manufactured by a company who has stated its future is "digital media and digital marketing", and that it believes the future of enterprise web application development is HTML5. It then begs the question, "How long will they bloat their Flashplayer to support an open-source Flex community's enterprise web application development goals and wishes?"
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> To accommodate the Flex community, Adobe gets nothing in return for its expenditure of time and money in designing, developing, testing the features the Flex community requires now and in the future. It also means that, by supporting Flex in their runtime, the Flashplayer has an unnecessarily larger footprint than would otherwise be required.
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> So, ask yourself if you truly believe Flex will be a supported product by Adobe in 5-10 years from now. I highly doubt it.
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> On the other hand, I think if a developer uses Flash Pro to develop digital media for their applications, they can probably count on that being around indefinitely. But, not Flex.
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> Ron
>
> --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> , James Ong <yanlilei64@> wrote:
> >
> > Using ZK and Java is great. I'm still sticking to Flex for developing
> > desktop applications and gaming.
> > Of course, many will still using it for animations, there is no such thing
> > as "abandon", some developers
> > are just over use Flash and end up hurting user experience than necessary.
> >
> > When it comes to web application, I stick to PHP but will definitely use
> > Flex for mobile, desktop and
> > components within the web browser.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM, <michael_regert@> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > Staying with Flex. Not looking elsewhere.****
> > >
> > > ** **
> > >
> > > *Michael*****
> > >
> > > ** **
> > >
> > > *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> ] *On
> > > Behalf Of *Ron G
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:15 PM
> > > *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > *Subject:* [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives****
> > >
> > > ** **
> > >
> > >   ****
> > >
> > > Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a
> > > Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based
> > > framework on the client-side.
> > >
> > > The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent
> > > components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex.
> > >
> > > It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into
> > > appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex. Well, not
> > > exactly, but sort of. :) Here's what I mean. For each UI object, it has a
> > > client side (widget) and server side (component). I won't go into further
> > > detail, but it gives you a nice separation of concerns that you can avail
> > > yourself of. This feature also greatly insulates the rendered pages from
> > > x-browser compatibility issues.
> > >
> > > Check it out for yourself at their site (zkoss.org).
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com> , "Sal" <sal.celli@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > hi,
> > > > as i can sadly see from the message history bottom grid, many
> > > programmers are leaving flex.
> > > > So this thread is to ask you all, if you have already found a valid
> > > alternative to flex for RIA development.
> > > >****
> > >
> > > ****
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>