I agree. Testing needs to be an integral part of the software development process.
But the things get worse or the projects are termed as 'Failed' when people start thinking about automation as a silver bullet to get rid of the debt that their test teams accumulate over the period of time just because they never thought about automation in the starting. Moreover, many a times, such teams/stakeholders try to quickly identify some tool and gets driven by whatever that tool offers.
If one wants to succeed in automation and wants to get real value out of it, (s)he needs to think of every dimensions that can be covered by automation and can help in reducing the test teams efforts that are just getting wasted to do the same job again and again. This can range from Unit, Interface/Services, functional etc.
The things that can be done using a tool, should be done by a tool, so that the actual testers can explore the product and keep on adding more tests to the automation suite.
- Vips
-----Original Message-----
From: agile-testing@yahoogroups.com [mailto:agile-testing@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Dinwiddie
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 7:21 AM
To: agile-testing@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [agile-testing] Failed test automation studies
Lisa,
That's not a tangent, at all, in my mind. I think that's the crux of the issue. Testing needs to be an integral part of how things get done.
And testing needs to happen in many scopes, from a few lines of code to the entire system. And, if you're going to work on the system very long at all (say, a month) then you'll really do better automating as much as you can.
- George
On 12/28/11 5:17 PM, Lisa Crispin wrote:
>
>
> I have a feeling that anything deemed a "test automation project" is
> doomed to failure. Test automation is simply a part of good software
> development, the same way testing is an integral part of software
> development. These aren't separate phases and they don't generally
> work well done by separate teams.
>
> If a development team (including the testers on that team) commit to
> automating their regression checks, and the same programmers who write
> the production code also write the automation code, and all of that is
> part of delivering the software, it's all going to get done.
>
> If we continue to take the view that automation is a special project,
> teams will continue to fail with it. The many case studies in Gojko's
> new book are teams that made automation part of their software
> development - using executable specifications to drive coding.
>
> Yeah, I know, I'm off on a tangent and a rant here. But really, we
> need to change how we talk about test automation. If we'd all start
> talking about it as an integral part of producing software, people
> might start understanding that concept. If we keep making it sound
> like some special separate activity to be done by someone other than
> the development team, teams will keep accumulating technical debt and
> lacking time for useful exploratory testing.
> -- Lisa
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Joel Foner <joel.foner@gmail.com
> <mailto:joel.foner@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> __
>
> I wonder if the failure rate is any higher or lower than software
> development projects in general? How would you define a failed test
> automation project? One that only achieved partial coverage? One
> that got outright cancelled?
>
>
> Joel
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Ulrich Freyer-Hirtz <u.f.h@gmx.de
> <mailto:u.f.h@gmx.de>> wrote:
>
> __
>
> Hi,
>
> I've seen a lot of failed test automation projects :-) ...but
> don't know about an official study.
> By the way, what kind of automation do you mean? Unit, Modul,
> Interface, Services, Load/Performance or GUI tests? If you think
> about GUI test automation you might find this link
> (http://www.agilerecord.com/agilerecord_01.pdf @see Page 16) useful.
>
> All of you a happy and agile new year!
> Cheers
> uli
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 10:59:18 +0100
> > Von: "Markus Gärtner" <mgaertne@googlemail.com
> <mailto:mgaertne%40googlemail.com>>
> > An: "agile-testing@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:agile-testing%40yahoogroups.com>"
> <agile-testing@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:agile-testing%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Betreff: Re: [agile-testing] Failed test automation studies
>
>
>
> > Hi Frank,
> >
> > not studies, but Gojko Adzic has the same claim in both,
> Specification by
> > Example and Bridging the Communication Gap. Elfriede Dustin
> also had
> > similar experiences, but Indon't remember the references.
> >
> > Best Markus
> >
> > --
> > Dipl.-Inform. Markus Gärtner
> >
> > it-agile GmbH
> > Paul-Stritter-Weg 5, D-22297 Hamburg
> >
> > Geschäftsführer: Henning Wolf, Jens Coldewey
> > Handelsregister Hamburg, HRB: 92261
> > Umsatzsteuer-Identifikationsnummer: DE239483021
> >
> > Fon: +49 40 88173-300 <tel:%2B49%2040%2088173-300>
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> > E-Mail: markus.gaertner@it-agile.de
> <mailto:markus.gaertner%40it-agile.de>
> >
> > http://www.it-agile.de
> >
> >
> > On 24.12.2011, at 08:11, Frank Cohen <frank@pushtotest.com
> <mailto:frank%40pushtotest.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Agileistas!
> > >
> > > Has anyone done a study of failed test automation projects?
> I am
> > searching for such a study to understand the results and help
> me make my case. In
> > my experience the organizations I sered that choose a tool
> without a test
> > methodology were more likely to fail. Anyone know of a study
> like this?
> > >
> > > -Frank
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Frank Cohen
> > > PushToTest, the Open Source Test (OST) Company
> > > fcohen@pushtotest.com <mailto:fcohen%40pushtotest.com>
> > > http://www.pushtotest.com
> > > Phone: (408) 364-5508 <tel:%28408%29%20364-5508>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> \//
> @@ <<<<<<<<<<< u.f.h@gmx.de <mailto:u.f.h%40gmx.de> >>>>>>>>>>>>
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> Lisa Crispin
> Co-author with Janet Gregory, _Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for
> Testers and Agile Teams_ (Addison-Wesley 2009) Contributor to
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--
----------------------------------------------------------
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
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