Lisa,
That's not a tangent, at all, in my mind. I think that's the crux of
the issue. Testing needs to be an integral part of how things get done.
And testing needs to happen in many scopes, from a few lines of code
to the entire system. And, if you're going to work on the system very
long at all (say, a month) then you'll really do better automating as
much as you can.
- George
On 12/28/11 5:17 PM, Lisa Crispin wrote:
>
>
> I have a feeling that anything deemed a "test automation project" is
> doomed to failure. Test automation is simply a part of good software
> development, the same way testing is an integral part of software
> development. These aren't separate phases and they don't generally work
> well done by separate teams.
>
> If a development team (including the testers on that team) commit to
> automating their regression checks, and the same programmers who write
> the production code also write the automation code, and all of that is
> part of delivering the software, it's all going to get done.
>
> If we continue to take the view that automation is a special project,
> teams will continue to fail with it. The many case studies in Gojko's
> new book are teams that made automation part of their software
> development - using executable specifications to drive coding.
>
> Yeah, I know, I'm off on a tangent and a rant here. But really, we need
> to change how we talk about test automation. If we'd all start talking
> about it as an integral part of producing software, people might start
> understanding that concept. If we keep making it sound like some special
> separate activity to be done by someone other than the development team,
> teams will keep accumulating technical debt and lacking time for useful
> exploratory testing.
> -- Lisa
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Joel Foner <joel.foner@gmail.com
> <mailto:joel.foner@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> __
>
> I wonder if the failure rate is any higher or lower than software
> development projects in general? How would you define a failed test
> automation project? One that only achieved partial coverage? One
> that got outright cancelled?
>
>
> Joel
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Ulrich Freyer-Hirtz <u.f.h@gmx.de
> <mailto:u.f.h@gmx.de>> wrote:
>
> __
>
> Hi,
>
> I've seen a lot of failed test automation projects :-) ...but
> don't know about an official study.
> By the way, what kind of automation do you mean? Unit, Modul,
> Interface, Services, Load/Performance or GUI tests? If you think
> about GUI test automation you might find this link
> (http://www.agilerecord.com/agilerecord_01.pdf @see Page 16) useful.
>
> All of you a happy and agile new year!
> Cheers
> uli
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 10:59:18 +0100
> > Von: "Markus Gärtner" <mgaertne@googlemail.com
> <mailto:mgaertne%40googlemail.com>>
> > An: "agile-testing@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:agile-testing%40yahoogroups.com>"
> <agile-testing@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:agile-testing%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Betreff: Re: [agile-testing] Failed test automation studies
>
>
>
> > Hi Frank,
> >
> > not studies, but Gojko Adzic has the same claim in both,
> Specification by
> > Example and Bridging the Communication Gap. Elfriede Dustin
> also had
> > similar experiences, but Indon't remember the references.
> >
> > Best Markus
> >
> > --
> > Dipl.-Inform. Markus Gärtner
> >
> > it-agile GmbH
> > Paul-Stritter-Weg 5, D-22297 Hamburg
> >
> > Geschäftsführer: Henning Wolf, Jens Coldewey
> > Handelsregister Hamburg, HRB: 92261
> > Umsatzsteuer-Identifikationsnummer: DE239483021
> >
> > Fon: +49 40 88173-300 <tel:%2B49%2040%2088173-300>
> > Fax: +49 40 88173-333 <tel:%2B49%2040%2088173-333>
> > Mobile: +49 172 4297613 <tel:%2B49%20172%204297613>
> > E-Mail: markus.gaertner@it-agile.de
> <mailto:markus.gaertner%40it-agile.de>
> >
> > http://www.it-agile.de
> >
> >
> > On 24.12.2011, at 08:11, Frank Cohen <frank@pushtotest.com
> <mailto:frank%40pushtotest.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Agileistas!
> > >
> > > Has anyone done a study of failed test automation projects?
> I am
> > searching for such a study to understand the results and help
> me make my case. In
> > my experience the organizations I sered that choose a tool
> without a test
> > methodology were more likely to fail. Anyone know of a study
> like this?
> > >
> > > -Frank
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Frank Cohen
> > > PushToTest, the Open Source Test (OST) Company
> > > fcohen@pushtotest.com <mailto:fcohen%40pushtotest.com>
> > > http://www.pushtotest.com
> > > Phone: (408) 364-5508 <tel:%28408%29%20364-5508>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> \//
> @@ <<<<<<<<<<< u.f.h@gmx.de <mailto:u.f.h%40gmx.de> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> ~
> ulrich freyer-hirtz
> engineer and musician
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> --
> Lisa Crispin
> Co-author with Janet Gregory, _Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for
> Testers and Agile Teams_ (Addison-Wesley 2009)
> Contributor to _Beautiful Testing_ (O'Reilly 2009)
> http://lisacrispin.com
> @lisacrispin on Twitter
> http://entaggle.com/lisacrispin
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--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
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