All Over Software Jobs: Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

Friday, December 23, 2011

"There is no flash application on the web that was designed with mobile devices in mind. "

There are people working on just those things. I'm one of them and I'll tell you why.

I've created mobile apps for the Android market and there are advantages to that. But there are also advantages to putting apps on your intranet or internet site. This lets me distribute my app to any device or tablet, provide instant updates and bug fixes (the user doesn't have worry about having the latest version as they do with apps), I can use Flex in the browser and by default (but not limited to) the app can use a universal layout because the browser allows the user to zoom in or out on it's viewport. If you've created mobile apps you'll know about DPI's. Of course Flex handles this in 4.6 as well!

I've looked at the mobile framework and there are about 2% of it that isn't compatible with the browser. I know because I've ported it to the browser and it's fast and it works (including the touch interaction). The 2% that doesn't convert is the AIR features and half of those have alternatives. btw I found out there are posts out there showing how to do this (they used a different method). If Adobe approves it maybe they can take out the AIR dependencies and allow the mobile components to run in the browser.

People hate Flash because it doesn't have or provide the basic features that HTML and browsers have. And people blame it on Flash developers not adding those features but they shouldn't have to. Also, because in general it costs money to create flash content (Flash pro) and it's controlled by a single company that can fix it break it or take it away on a whim (ie Flash Player on mobile). Usually people don't hate something that doesn't affect them. I think they'd rather see it fixed and working. I'm rambling...

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 5:12 AM, Haykel BEN JEMIA <haykelbj@gmail.com> wrote:

Interesting answers but they almost all are based on the assumption that you have much time and enough money to waste. You can do almost everything with HTML/JS/CSS, but for many things you will require much (really much) more time than with Flash. I say 'almost' because there are things you can't do, an example is applications using peer-assisted networking (peer-to-peer), which is a realworld project I'm working on currently.

Let's stop this war because both technologies are complementary and there are things you should do with one technology and others with other technologies.

Now regarding the attitude of Adobe, it's true that the way they did the annoucement was not 'friendly', but it was actually a logical decision. There is no flash application on the web that was designed with mobile devices in mind. Users generally install apps on their devices and we have AIR for that, especially with the new native extensions there is no limitations to what you can do anymore. Developing using Flash and native languages for extensions is a new way of developing applications and it should be the same for web apps, where we develop with Flash and HTML.

The reality is that every technology has its advantages and as a developer you have to know when to use each one.

Haykel Ben Jemia

Allmas
Web & RIA Development
http://www.allmas-tn.com

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Rick Winscot <rick.winscot@zyche.com> wrote:

Uh… the original question is pretty simple - "can you do anything [ like the link provided ] in HTML / CSS?" The short answer is, "yes." Since you opened a can of worms… I'll bite.

"Specs not yet finished…" blah blah blah. If you're looking for a language to get carved in stone before you write a line of code… good luck. There are plenty of apps out there that are working just fine on 'draft' technology. Innovation typically drives change – not the other way around.

"Newer features…" bah! If you find a browser that supports the features you must have… try to standardize on that browser if you can. If you can't… then cross that bridge if you have to come to it and not before. Getting your panties in a wad over something that isn't on your plate is a waste of time.

"One code-base everywhere…" Urk. Really? I thought that was what Flash was supposed to do! Seriously… I don't know what you're trying to say here. If you need an HTML/CSS app that runs just about anywhere… wrap it in AIR and move on. Did he even state that it needs to run on desktop, mobile, tablets, and the voyager I spacecraft?

"Any good programmer…" barf. I do get sick of pious comments like this. I mean – the guy just asked a simple question. Architecture is a subject best served after a developer has a chance to get cozy with the technology. I mean – I appreciate your desire to go deep on this question but really… milk before meat. The question was simple – if he needs more – let the subject blossom.

From: Robert VanCuren Jr <robert.vancuren.jr@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" <flexcoders@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 01:01:27 -0500

To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" <flexcoders@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

There is no one size fits all solution if you want to build a complex application. Flash might be a good choice for one and HTML for another and you might need to go native depending on what you are trying to do. Maybe you even want to use Java or Silverlight!

When you ask if you can do something in HTML5/JS/CSS you need to keep in mind that many of the specs are not yet finished. It will be several more years before they are even in the recommendation phase. So while it may be possible to do some things in some browsers HTML5/JS/CSS is far from being cross platform ready. Standards move slow by their nature and because of that browser vendors will release features before the standards are finished, many times that means that each browser will have a different API or implementation for the same feature.

If you are going to use newer html features it is recommended that you only use the ones that are relatively stable. May of the really cool features that you will want to use are not yet production ready and should be avoided for a real project. Of course if you can limit your scope to a couple browsers there is a lot more you can do.

All of that said you can make some really kick ass stuff using the HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. There are tons of libraries that will abstract out the browser specific things and attempt to make one code base work everywhere. Things like Modernizr, Three.js, Dojo, jQuery, EaselJS ,ect, ect. Even when using these libraries there are performance differences across devices and even browser versions. Making a web application that really works across platforms and devices is not a trivial task.

Take a look at some of the stuff you can do
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/
http://www.chromeexperiments.com/

As any good developer knows you should always choose your technology on a per project basis and not because one tech is cooler than the other. In many cases it may be require to have multiple versions of your application to cover your whole target market. The project I am currently working on has a native Android and iOS app, along with an HTML5 and Flash version so that we could get as much coverage as possible. Sure its a pain but if you really want cross platform that is whats required.

Some things are not even possible with out a native app on certain devices. Things like file I/O and Audio are very lacking in most browsers. Sometimes you just have to go native.

Do not be afraid to learn a new language or two it will be good for you. Also make sure to pick the right tech for what you are trying to build. Again there is no holy grail that will let you write code once and work absolutely everywhere, it just does not exist. Choose your tech wisely!

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Rick Winscot <rick.winscot@zyche.com> wrote:

The charts? The dashboard? The app as a whole? Yes… I'd recommend looking into the ExtJS samples at Sencha.

http://www.sencha.com/products/extjs/

From: Dave Glasser <dglasser@pobox.com>
Reply-To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" <flexcoders@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:22:39 -0800 (PST)
To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" <flexcoders@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

Can you do something comparable to this with HTML5/JS/CSS?

http://examples2.idashboards.com/idashboards/?guestuser=wputil1&dashID=260

If so, do you have any links to examples?

________________________________
From: Guy Morton <guy@alchemy.com.au>

Using HTML/JS/CSS you CAN do apps that look every bit as nice as Flash apps, and they run everywhere.